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Thread: 9th Generation Chinese 12AX7

  1. #11

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    [QUOTE=sfryette][QUOTE=Grendel]
    The C9's may just be normal progression, but they do sound better than the older onesQUOTE]

    WHICH "older ones". Used older ones? A perfectly fresh older one? How old?
    Specifically, date of manufacture, production batch, etc?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    A source for documentation could be www.dougstubes.com , he's a very personable guy and I'm sure he'd give the scoop on his C9's that he sells, it's where I get 'em from.QUOTE]

    I've been buying chinese 12AX7 for almost 30 years - and still have stock of 20 and 30 year old pieces for reference. I doubt that there is anything dougstubes knows about this that I don't other than who originated the C9 mystery juice concept.




    When did you get it and what does it look like? After you do the test, send them both to me.

    The original post was mean to inform and make people aware of a situation that we believe is not in the best interest of consumers who may find themselves taking out a perfectly good tube and replacing it with an identical part just because of a nifty designation..

    smf

    The Ruby I got came in the new CLX I recieved at the end of last year.
    One thing I'm wondering is what the scoop is on these Ruby 7025 that came stock in slots 2-4, I don't see them listed on the original post. To me, they don't have the muscle in the sound either (a little darker, but not as aggressive on the low end), so I swapped those out for C9's as well. I only got one Ruby 12AX7 stock in my CLX, and that was in the last slot. I take it you only shipped with the 7025 for a short while?
    VHT CLX w/graphic
    Mesa Trad. 412
    Earcandy 212 w/P50E's

  2. #12

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    [QUOTE=Grendel][QUOTE=sfryette]
    Quote Originally Posted by Grendel
    One thing I'm wondering is what the scoop is on these Ruby 7025 that came stock in slots 2-4, I don't see them listed on the original post. To me, they don't have the muscle in the sound either (a little darker, but not as aggressive on the low end), so I swapped those out for C9's as well. I only got one Ruby 12AX7 stock in my CLX, and that was in the last slot. I take it you only shipped with the 7025 for a short while?
    Best way to tell is post pics or give a detailed description.

    For several months we used a Shuguang 12AX7 variant which is basically the same construction but has a different plate material. The plates look silver and these are sometimes labeled RUBY7025SS. We went back to using the gray plate part and these may be labeled 12AX7A/ECC83 in white ink, RUBY 12AX7A in red ink or RUBY 7025SS in red ink. We never used anything that was labled only as "7025".

    Unfortunately, there is no longer an agreed upon international standard for vacuum tubes like JEDEC, EIA. DIN etc, which set standards for the use of terms like GC, GB, JAN (Joint Army/Navy), etc. Now different suppliers or companies will print a variety of different names on the same tube to suit their own internal method for tracking things - Mesa 12AX7R2 for example, or just make things up that sound technical but dont denote anything useful - WX. WXT, WXT+, etc. Sometimes there is no printing at all. This makes it difficult for the end user to know what is what and gives rise to nomenclature like "C9" which doesn't mean anything useful either. Ninth generation of what? Have there been 9 SIGNIFICANT DESIGN CHANGES (noticably different plate shape and structure for example) in the tube since 1980? Since 1995? Since Shuguang moved the factory? What exactly are the changes? Minor tweaks maybe. But there is really no logical reason to call a minor change like a different insulator shape a "generation". The old insulator version sounded the same and yielded about the same ratio of stable tubes to microphonic ones as the new one. More than likely they just changed suppliers for the insulator or needed a better way to adjust for tolerances in bottle diameter. That doesn't make it a NEW GENERATION OF TUBE DESIGN.

    In short, the "Ninth Generation" label is just a contrivance to get you to buy two of the same thing.

    Caveat Emptor

    smf

  3. #13

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    I see, time to retire the C9 label!
    The tubes I recieved were three 7025SS and one Ruby 12AX7A in red ink. They appear identical, with the octagonal second brace. The plates on both on silver. The only differance to the so-called C9 I've been using is it has the grey plates.
    Last edited by Grendel; 03-12-2006 at 06:49 AM.
    VHT CLX w/graphic
    Mesa Trad. 412
    Earcandy 212 w/P50E's

  4. #14
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    hello all. I got my new UL a few weeks back..nice! anyway about the C9's ,,,the Shuguang 12AX7A-C9 has the gray plates and the 12AX7B-C9 has shiny silver plates and are commonly called "Silver Dragons" which my amp came with. I've tried Bob and Doug and several other vendors and they are great guys but if you what the best matched and tested tubes check out Aki at Boiaudioworks.com E-mail only but he responds quickly..

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms
    hello all. I got my new UL a few weeks back..nice! anyway about the C9's ,,,the Shuguang 12AX7A-C9 has the gray plates and the 12AX7B-C9 has shiny silver plates and are commonly called "Silver Dragons" which my amp came with. I've tried Bob and Doug and several other vendors and they are great guys but if you what the best matched and tested tubes check out Aki at Boiaudioworks.com E-mail only but he responds quickly..

    Glad you like your amp.

    Tom, with all due respect, the intention of the tread was to clear the air of tube reseller doubletalk, not add to it. The silver plate Shuguang has been around off and on for at least 14-15 years that I am aware of and I have never heard them called Silver Dragons. PM Components brands their Chinese made tubes Golden Dragon and if you are in the EU or UK, maybe that's where your Silver Dragon name came from. You can call them Silver Beatles if you want to and if your friends at Boiaudioworks want to call one a BC9 and the other an AC9, they are certainly free to do so. They can call them DC10s for all I care, but it doesn't make them special or better in any significant way or worth more money.

    Here's the post in a nutshell:The Shuguang 12AX7 we currently use is the same as that which some resellers are calling "C9". If you have stock tubes in your new amp or new Shuguangs that look like the new one in the posted picture above, don't rush out to buy a "C9" thinking it's going to sound different.

    smf

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    well that's enough due respect for me,it was a short membership

  7. #17

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    Yeah, got it, as long as they have the gray plates and the octagonal second bracer it's all good.
    Last edited by Grendel; 03-12-2006 at 06:11 PM.
    VHT CLX w/graphic
    Mesa Trad. 412
    Earcandy 212 w/P50E's

  8. #18
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    Well this turned out to be even more informative than it started out to be...right on! Thanks Steve!
    dave

    CLX / Fatbottom 412, Deliverance 412

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Toms
    well that's enough due respect for me,it was a short membership
    Sorry if you got offended. You shouldn't have. I tell it like it is and I think if you read the whole thread carefully, you might realize that it's meant as a service to the members, you included, and whichever amp you play. Maybe I should just shut up and let everyone figure it out the hard (expensive) way...

    smf

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by sfryette
    Maybe I should just shut up and let everyone figure it out the hard (expensive) way...

    smf
    Nope, keep it coming.

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